Episode 5: Guanacos in Love? (What BREEDING Taught Us)

I think of it like this:

Breeding animals is like sowing seeds. They are both acts of hope.

And when you perform acts of hope, you are not only doing something for your future, but you are enriching your present. See, if worrying about the future prevents you from doing hopeful things, everything looks pretty bleak. I guess what I’m saying is this. If you wait for the worry to go away, you could end up waiting too long. Because life keeps going. And why not spend time planting seeds or performing acts of hope. Cause, when all is said and done, you will be grateful for the memories these hopeful experiences create. And, in the future, you just might find that you’ve grown something very special along the way.

This episode is a love story within a love story.

We are going to tell you all about our breeding program and some great gossipy tidbits about guanaco seduction. We are even going to talk to our vet who will explain exactly why it takes guanacos 45 minutes to breed. Which, by the way, if you have young ones listening, this might raise some questions about animal reproduction that you aren’t quite ready to answer–if that’s the case you might like to pause and return to listening when those curious and naive ears are not present. But, guanaco sex education aside, this episode is really about what it means to create memories, which, in turn, tells our own love story. And how for Greg and I, in the end, what we plant means everything in the world.

This brings us back to the farm.

“Okay, are we all done? She’s still laying’ down, did you not get the job done, dude?” Greg asked.

“When we first started, there was this phrase called the breeding program people were throwing around. And I facetiously said we don’t even have a breeding program. Do you remember what you said?” Lisa asked.

“I do, I said it’s me. I’m Guanaco Yenta,” Greg said.

“So, you sort of self-identified as the breeding program,” Lisa said.

“Right,” Greg said.

“I sort of said, “fine if you want to go make babies, go make babies!” Lisa said.

“I think a lot of people get guanacos and then realize they can’t quite handle them. It’s just not good for their continuation as a species in North America. So I really wanted to have a herd that could continue as a herd,” Greg said.

“You were very determined….and also hopeful,” Lisa said.

“And hopeful,” Greg repeated.

“You carried enough hope for both of us,” Lisa said.

“Right,” Greg said.

As I said, the breeding program caused some conflict here on the farm. I was worried about the future and what having guanaco babies would mean long term.

“One of the things that we always talk about, you and I, because you are 14 years older than I am and you know, is the idea that I will likely outlive you as well,” Lisa said.

“Right,” Greg said.

“And that means that I and the guanacos will outlive you as well,” Lisa said.

“When you think about that idea, barring some accident or tragedy, the likelihood of me outliving you and the guanacos outliving you, what role does your idea of breeding play in that?” Lisa said.

“Well I’m not thinking you would name one Greg if that’s what you are asking,” Greg said.

“Oh my god!” Lisa laughed.

“That’s not what I’m thinking,” Greg said.

“No,” Lisa said.

Greg had a vision, and he was determined. So the first thing he had to do was learn about guanaco reproduction and breeding. There are a lot of interesting things he learned. And before we tell you about the soap opera–um–I mean the guanaco love story–I want to teach you a few guanaco reproduction facts. This is going to make it easier for you to follow along when we get to that guanaco love story–I mean soap opera!

First off, I had some fun talking to our vet Dr. Sandi Farris. She’s been working with camelids for about 30 years and was fortunate to be mentored by Dr. LaRue Johnson who is very well known in the camelid world. We’re lucky to have Dr. Sandi on Whidbey Island.

So, Dr, Sandi is going to teach you the first important fact about guanaco reproduction.

“So these guys are fascinating in their reproduction because they don’t have a breeding season. They could breed year-round, any time. They are what are called induced ovulators. So that once they have decided that they are receptive to the male, and cush, lay down, and the male actually breeds, the semen of the male has an agent in it, a compound that induces ovulation. That once they have been bred, then they ovulate. Which is pretty interesting,” Sandi said.

“So once the egg has been ovulated, if the egg is out there, if there is a fertilization then the female will develop what’s called a fertilization, the embryo develops and implants, ….and hopefully you have a happy healthy pregnancy,” Sandi said.

Okay, got that? Induced ovulation.

Now, we opened the episode with some guanaco humming. Here’s what it sounds like again.

Doesn’t it sound musical? This goes on and on and on during breeding and I wanted to know if Dr. Sandi could explain it for you. Remember, she’s an expert and likes to use very scientific terms.

“What’s the purpose of the male singing?” Lisa said.

“Oh, the orgling! Laughs…so it’s called orgling. It’s a vocalization. So the breeding itself, once the male has begun the breeding, it’s about 45 minutes,” Sandi said.

“45 minutes,” Lisa said.

“You definitely have to have a sense of humor when we talk about reproduction,” Sandi said.

“Why does it take so long?” Lisa asked.

“It takes so long because these males are what’s called dribble ejaculators,” Sandi said.

“What?” Lisa asked. “Wait, what is that called? Can we say that again? Lisa said.

“Dribble ejaculators,” Sandi said.

“That’s a very technical term. And what does that mean?” Lisa asked.

“Very technical, right? It just means that they very slowly will release the semen. The volume of semen is so tiny, it’s 2-4 milliliters, hardly anything comes out in that long amount of time. It’s deposited right into the uterus of the female, through the cervix, so not just in the vaginal area–actually all the way up there. And it just takes a long time for the whole process,” Sandi said.

“So if he sings, maybe it feels better for him,” Lisa joked.

“Perhaps, that’s what it is. He found the words to the song,” Sandi said.

Okay! So now that you’ve learned some vocabulary–let’s just review.

Guanacos are induced ovulators and dribble ejaculators. The male orgles for the 45 minutes it takes him to do the deed.

Now, to make the whole thing even more interesting, I asked Greg to describe some of the important subtleties of his breeding program.

“The alpaca breeders that I know say that if they want to breed for a female cria, they breed… so I’ve heard 2 different stories. They breed the girls and the boy during the new moon,” Greg said.

“Okay, so if you want a girl, you breed at the new moon,” Lisa said.

“Right,” Greg said. “And then I’ve also heard from different alpaca breeders, that no, if you want girls you breed at the full moon.”

“Okay, so it’s the full moon or the new moon,” Lisa said.

“Which are very different things,” Greg said.

“But you were tracking the moon. You bought into it somehow,” Lisa said.

“I started breeding initially. Nine days before the full moon, before the new moon, and then breeding again on the 7th day after the 1st breeding and then on the 9th day which would have been the new moon. Then on the 11th day which would be 2 days after the new moon. So that’s how I was trying to do the breeding,” Greg said.

“That’s a complex strategy, dude, for breeding. Do you keep notes or something? Lisa asked.

See what I mean about Greg’s determination and hope?!

So, by now you might be wondering, after all that–how do you know if a guanaco gets pregnant?

“We’re not so happy with him today,” Greg said as one of the Guanacos spit his way.

“It’s a spitty day today,” Lisa said.

“God is it ever,” Greg joked.

“When a female guanaco is pregnant, she will refuse the male. But that means she will try to beat him up. And it starts with her bringing stuff up from her ruman and spraying it all over him,” Greg said.

“Like, back off dude, don’t even think about touching me,” Lisa said.

“This year when we brought Georgia or Katie over to the new male for continuing attempts at breeding and we believed they were already pregnant, they would begin spitting at him through the fence. They wouldn’t even wait to get in with him. They would start and it was non-stop. It was, “Don’t you come anywhere near the fence, don’t you even think about coming near me. I hate every hair on your body and I’m covering you with green to show you.” Greg said.

“When you are observing this, it’s such a marked contrast between her receptivity, her clucking, and excitement, her behavior of greeting the male for the first couple of times–they may spit, like, “You are a little too rough back there.” Or I don’t want to get down right away,” Lisa said.

“Right, you need to court me a little before I get down on my knees,” Greg said.

“Compared to rapid-fire, firehose kind of stuff coming out of that mouth,” Lisa said.

“Yeah, and it is, it’s non-stop spitting,” Greg said.

Let’s add one more layer of guanaco seduction education. You just heard me mention clucking.

Well, clucking, is the female version of a construction worker whistle. She stands with her neck stretched high and her tail up and makes clucking noises with her tongue against her palette. It’s definitely a good way to get the boy’s attention!

Remember I told you that there was a guanaco love story here on the farm? Now that you have some new vocabulary, let me tell you the story. Well, once the breeding program was in full swing, we found out that Angie and Coacher are in love.

“They’ve always had a crush on one another. Angie has always had a crush on Coacher. That’s the best way to put it. And Coacher has always responded in kind,” Greg said.

“What does a guanaco crush look like? Lisa asked.

“Angie would start sniffing his nose and he would start nibbling her neck and they would up with their tongues out kissing,” Greg said.

“French guanaco kissing,” Lisa said.

“Right, it’s a little gross,” Greg said.

“Almost like, if you imagine, giraffe tongues,” Lisa said.

“Yes, their tongues don’t come out that far,” Greg said.

“Does she cluck? I haven’t heard her do that seductive clucking?” Lisa asked.

“She doesn’t cluck at him. She just comes over and he will get all manly and excited and she’ll start kissing him and it’s yeah. They spend lotsa time doing that! Greg said.

And then when the actual breeding started–here’s how it happened.

“Okay girls,” Lisa said.

“Let’s go see Coacher, there you go,” Greg said.

“Okay mister man, you’re a good boy. Come on, let’s go get those girls,” Lisa said.

“I would let Coacher into the middle pasture with the girls,” Greg said.

“So the middle pasture separates his pasture from the females, it’s like a corridor between the two,” Lisa said.

“He’s very happy,” Greg said.

“He’s all sauntery in,” Lisa said.

“But Coacher isn’t that aggressive in terms of mating. So he would go over to Angie and Angie would start sniffing him and…..as soon as she did that he would immediately be ready to breed with her. He would jump on her back and she would go down and cush. And guanaco breeding takes a while. It takes like 20 to 40 minutes,” Lisa said.

“So he climbs on top of her. But within a couple of minutes, he’s humming to her. He hums as he breeds with her and she turns her head all the way around and faces him and he’s humming and she’s kissing him and he’s humming its a very… for guanacos, a very erotic kind thing,” Greg said.

“So funny,” Lisa said.

“It’s very tender actually, “Greg said.

“It’s surprisingly tender. So my expectation was, we open the gate, he comes in, she comes in and it’s like, aggressive. Start biting or chasing whatever they are going to do,” Lisa said.

“Coacher needed a little encouragement from Angie, generally,” Greg said.

“But it was gentle,” Lisa said. “It’s very gentle and sweet.”

“It is, especially while they are kissing. It’s a very tender thing between the two of them,” Greg said.

“Yeah,” Lisa said.

Then here’s where the soap opera starts!

“Angie seems to demonstrate guanaco jealousy–I know it’s so hard to say isn’t it?
When he is breeding with another female. She…,” Greg starts

“She wants to be monogamous,” Lisa continues.

“She attempts to interrupt his breeding with other females and when that’s happening I have had to stand and push her away because she bites the ears of the other female that’s on the ground and she tries to push Coacher off with her head. She tries to get her head under his neck,” Greg aid.

But it turns out that in order to breed with the others, Coacher needed some fluffing. That Angie’s presence was very important to the breeding program.

“Generally, when Coacher and Angie would finish, Coacher would then be very excited. And he would go jump on Georgia. And they would breed,” Greg said.

“Okay, so the prenuptials would be between Coacher and Angie, and then he would say, “oh my who else, who else can I do!” And then he would go and find Georgia,” Lisa said.

“Let’s say, you have a plan, you are going to breed them. And you’ve figured out the calendar or whatever. And you are all ready to go. I’m going to do my breeding now, I’m the breeding program, okay, now here we go. And then it’s a big old flop,” Lisa said.

“And then nothing happens,” Greg said.

“So would you like to describe that?” Lisa asked.

“Angie was very pregnant. So we were only interested in breeding Georgia and Katie with Coacher,” Greg said.

“Yup,” Lisa said.

“Georgia was doing her best that she could do. She would flirt with Coacher over the fence, not seriously kissing, but she would touch noses,” Greg said.

“But she clucked,” Lisa said.

“And clucks and she would stand erect and lift her tail up for him and stand very tall. And when I would put them together–and Coacher would be excited. And I’d put them together, And Coacher would just kind of ignore her,” Greg said.

“He would sulk away and pretend to graze grass. Like, holy shit, I don’t want to deal with this badass mama.” Lisa said .

“He would not face her. She would go over and put her backside in his face,” Greg said.

“Yeah, she was like, “Hey!” Lisa said.

“And he would turn around the other way,” Greg said.

“He’s like, ‘No you scare me.’ ‘I don’t really like you because I only like Angie,” Lisa said

“At one point when I put them all together he tried to breed with Angie who was 11 months pregnant at the time with his baby,” Greg said.

“It’s like, Get a clue dude,” Lisa said.

“Yeah, it’s like your sniffer is broken,” Greg said.

“Maybe it’s beyond sniffing, maybe it’s just love,” Lisa said.

“Whatever,” Greg said.

“So what’s your theory? That his sniffer is broken or? Lisa asked.

“I have no idea. Or that he’s got a psychological issue. I don’t know,” Greg said.

“I think he just wants to be friends with Georgia and he’s given his heart to Angie,” Lisa said.

“And he only breeds with Georgia, if it’s the orgy happening?” Greg said.

“Yeah, once it’s all happening, you might as well go for it,” Lisa said.

“If you are all worked up, you might as well finish what you started, is that?” Greg laughed.

So there you have it. A guanaco love story. Complete with jealousy, friend-zoning, and all kinds of other relationship drama!

And even with all of that…..Greg’s breeding program has continued. Since the beginning, he’s refined his calendar, he’s honed his vision, and he’s even compensated for the friend zone situation with Georgia by training her (the way we described in episode 4) to lead across open ground to our new boy Pedro. Who is really a good breeder? Different from the Coacher but proficient in his breeding process.

I can’t resist telling you how they are different.

“Pedro’s young, and um,” LIsa said.

“Slam bam thank you mam,” Greg said.

“And like, serious business that’s really full of effort and his cheeks puffing out,” Lisa said.

“Blowing the horn,” Greg said.

“With his cheeks, because he was breeding so hard,” Lisa said.

“No humming,” Greg said.

“And no humming, no sweetness, just, it’s really hard and serious business here,” Lisa said.

Whether you are talking about Pedro or Coacher, Angie or Georgia, or any of the other guanacos in Greg’s breeding program, I want to say they are all really fortunate to have such a hopeful and dedicated Guanaco Yenta.

“I’ve really grown to love these animals. And the idea that we can have a herd whose female children can mate with another unrelated male. Because now we have two unrelated males. And a sustainable herd means a herd that’s genetically diverse. And that’s very important Because what happens when you inbreed guanacos is they become sterile. That’s the first thing that happens. They can’t breed anymore. And so having a herd that can breed, can have babies, the babies can have babies–it’s just my little gift to the guanaoc species in a way. To have a herd that can do that. It doesn’t have to be big. But it just has to be moving forward in time. Not dying out,” Greg said.

“That’s special,” Lisa said.

“You think so? Greg said.

“I do, I really do,” Lisa said.

“What do you think about having a sustainable herd? They’ll be around when I’m gone,” Greg said.

“I think it’s special. I have warmed to the idea of having babies. And growing the herd. So you are doing a good job on the breeding program,” Lisa said.

“Thank you,” Greg said.

Greg thinks of it as a gift. I think of it as love. We both realize how essential these seeds of hope are to the future of our relationship to the farm and each other.

“It will continue to grow and to flourish and multiply and it will be there for you,” Greg said.

“And what does that mean to you?” Lisa said.

“Just that it’s a gift. That you would look out and we’d still be in contact with one another,” Greg said.

“Yeah,” Lisa said. “I recognize it, you know? I used to be so scared of it and not wanting to be burdened by the bigness of it all. It’s completely shifted for me because–exactly. It feels like a gift.

I hope you are delighted at knowing something new about guanaco reproduction after having listened to this episode. But more importantly, I hope you heard the message. That no matter how worried or scared you are about the future, you have to plant seeds in the present. You have to let yourself hope–even just a little bit–OR–make sure you find your own version of a guanaco Yenta. If you do, no matter what the future brings, the memories will be there for you–as an unforgettable gift.

Hey everyone, I’ve been so touched by your heartfelt messages about how you are enjoying the podcast. Thank you! And, I have a little request–I’m wondering if you could help me spread the word and find more people who may want to listen? Can you send this episode to someone who worries about the future? Someone who might need a bit of hope and the inspiration to plant some seeds? I’d love it if you could. Also, be sure to tune in next time when we share the results of our breeding program and all the beautiful and stressful parts of becoming guanaco parents.

Credits: I want to say how delighted I am that Dr. Sandi Farris could bring her humor to our podcast. It was lovely to spend those moments with her–giggling and carrying on. She’s been through some hard stuff with us, and sometimes I feel like it’s not fair that we don’t get to just enjoy one another during her doctoring visits.